Convicted intercourse trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, who’s searching for a pardon from Donald Trump, informed high Justice Division officers throughout an interview final month that she by no means witnessed the president “in any inappropriate setting” with ladies launched to him by disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.
Maxwell, Epstein’s co-conspirator who’s serving a 20-year federal jail sentence, makes unfailingly flattering references to Trump, in response to transcripts of the dialog launched by the Justice Division on Friday. She says she “by no means” noticed Trump obtain a “therapeutic massage,” which is the time period prosecutors have mentioned Epstein and Maxwell used as code language to explain sexual encounters with the ladies and younger girls they recruited.
“I really by no means noticed the president in any kind of therapeutic massage setting,” she mentioned in a swiftly organized interview that befell in Florida over the course of two days final month. “I by no means witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any manner. The president was by no means inappropriate with anyone. Within the occasions that I used to be with him, he was a gentleman in all respects.”
The Justice Division launched the interview supplies across the identical time it delivered a tranche of the so-called Epstein recordsdata to Capitol Hill in response to a congressional subpoena. The knowledge in these recordsdata isn’t but public. The strikes are a part of the division’s continued efforts to quell the uproar from Trump’s MAGA base over the administration’s dealing with of the Epstein recordsdata.
The transcripts present few recent particulars concerning the Epstein saga, which has been meticulously documented in prison and civil trials for many years. When Maxwell was pressed on newly reported details about Trump’s relationship with Epstein — together with his purportedly raunchy submission to a e-book compiled for Epstein’s fiftieth birthday — Maxwell mentioned she couldn’t recall specifics. Trump has denied he wrote the submission and POLITICO has not independently verified it.
“It’s been so lengthy,” Maxwell mentioned when requested to recall the names of contributors to the e-book. “I need to let you know, however I don’t bear in mind.”
Deputy Lawyer Basic Todd Blanche interviewed Maxwell, and the 2 had been joined within the room by Diego Pestana, the appearing affiliate deputy lawyer basic, an FBI particular agent, a deputy U.S. marshal and three of Maxwell’s attorneys.
In February, DOJ launched what it known as the “first part” of paperwork associated to the Epstein investigation, which has been a fixation of a few of the president’s supporters. However the restricted supplies it disclosed to far-right influencers solely additional infuriated Epstein conspiracy theorists who pressed the administration to launch extra paperwork associated to the deceased intercourse trafficker.
It has lengthy been public that Trump — together with different outstanding figures — had a relationship with Epstein and was referenced in paperwork launched in court docket circumstances involving him. Trump hasn’t been accused of any wrongdoing tied to Epstein. A spokesperson for the White Home didn’t instantly reply to requests for touch upon the discharge of the transcripts.
Maxwell was convicted at a jury trial in 2021 of getting aided and took part in Epstein’s intercourse trafficking ring, which the federal government has mentioned victimized greater than 1,000 younger girls and ladies. Epstein died in jail by suicide in 2019 whereas awaiting trial on intercourse trafficking expenses. Prosecutors have known as Maxwell a serial liar and in addition charged her with perjury however dropped these counts after her conviction on different expenses.
Maxwell describes Epstein’s habits
Maxwell’s denials of inappropriate habits went nicely past Trump. She informed DOJ officers of their interviews that she by no means witnessed any misconduct by any males who visited or traveled with Epstein — contradicting each what Justice Division officers have concluded and mountains of proof introduced at her prison trial and in quite a few civil circumstances.
“I by no means, ever noticed any man doing one thing inappropriate with a lady of any age. I by no means noticed inappropriate habits,” she mentioned.
Maxwell insisted she was unaware of any sexual contact between Epstein and minors or another kind of “non-consensual” sexual exercise. However she mentioned she now acknowledges a few of these issues might have occurred exterior her presence.
“I’m not saying that Mr. Epstein didn’t do these issues,” she mentioned. “I don’t really feel comfy saying that at the moment, given what I now know to be true. So I’m not right here to defend him. However what I can say is that I didn’t take part in that exercise.”
Maxwell additionally acknowledged Epstein’s curiosity in girls modified over time, shifting towards youthful girls and even youngsters.
“I by no means understood that change to embody kids. I did see from after I met him, he was concerned … nonetheless you need to characterize it, with girls who had been of their 20s. After which the slide to, you understand, 18 or youthful trying girls. However I by no means thought-about that this may embody prison habits,” she mentioned.
Whereas not taking accountability for any prison conduct, Maxwell mentioned she and others near Epstein accepted his obsessive tendencies involving massages and younger girls.
“I don’t suppose he did disguise it. … And I believe that the individuals round him, I believe, myself included clearly normalized his habits on a variety of fronts,” she mentioned. “I personal my facet of that fence that I used to be there and that I noticed his habits with girls and didn’t problem him or do one thing.”
Trump admin tries to manage the narrative
Trump and his allies fueled conspiracy theories about Epstein for years, hinting that the federal government was sitting on a trove of proof of highly effective individuals collaborating in Epstein’s intercourse trafficking operation, maybe included on an incriminating shopper record Epstein supposedly saved. In addition they recommended Epstein’s demise might have been the results of foul play. And Trump aides, together with Lawyer Basic Pam Bondi, fueled hypothesis additional after they recommended in February {that a} large launch of recordsdata was coming quickly.
However the administration reversed course final month, revealing that the unreleased proof was largely a set of express movies of ladies, and that there was no proof to contradict the conclusion that Epstein killed himself in jail or a supposed “shopper record.” The choice led to an uproar amongst Trump allies that uncovered some cracks among the many MAGA base and prompted a rare rush by Trump allies to quell the furor.
Blanche’s resolution to interview Maxwell — a extremely uncommon process for the No. 2 official at DOJ — in addition to his ill-fated resolution to hunt the discharge of grand jury transcripts linked to the case, had been aimed toward tamping down the anger.
His resolution to interview Maxwell got here regardless of prosecutors’ longtime description of Maxwell as a serial liar. She was charged with two counts of perjury for mendacity to authorities throughout a deposition about Epstein. These expenses had been later dropped after her conviction on different counts. She declined to testify at her trial.
Maxwell, within the interviews, rejected claims by prosecutors that Epstein paid her huge sums of cash, as a lot as $30 million, throughout the course of their relationship. Prosecutors had recommended throughout her trial that the largesse was supposed to maintain her quiet about her position in recruiting underage ladies to interact in sexual exercise with him, however she denied that.
“That’s categorically false,” she mentioned.
Maxwell mentioned a few of the cash funded investments and enterprise offers, whereas different funds had been moved to accounts linked to her however really used to purchase issues for Epstein.
“My perception is that that cash additionally contained cash that was for a helicopter, for example, that I by no means owned and I — was by no means mine,” she mentioned.
Maxwell discusses Invoice Clinton, Prince Andrew and RFK Jr.
The transcripts comprise references to a variety of outstanding figures in politics and enterprise, though in lots of situations Maxwell says she doesn’t consider they ever met or knew Epstein.
Maxwell says she was pleasant with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and went on a number of journeys with former President Invoice Clinton, together with a minimum of one on one in all Epstein’s planes. However Epstein wasn’t on that journey, she mentioned. She additionally sought to knock down the rumors that Invoice Clinton hung out on a non-public island Epstein owned within the Caribbean, Little Saint James Island.
“He by no means. Completely by no means went. And I will be certain of that as a result of there’s no manner he would’ve gone — I don’t consider there’s any manner that he would’ve gone to the island, had I not been there. As a result of I don’t consider he had an impartial friendship, if you’ll, with Epstein,” she mentioned.
Maxwell additionally mentioned she didn’t sense that Invoice Clinton had any specific private reference to Epstein. “I didn’t see President Clinton being interested by Epstein. He was only a wealthy man with a aircraft,” she mentioned.
Aides to Clinton have acknowledged that he had interactions with Epstein andused one in all his planes for worldwide journey, however say he minimize ties with Epstein after he pleaded responsible to prison soliciting expenses in Florida in 2008.
Maxwell additionally disputes that Prince Andrew, one of many highest-profile males who’s accused of getting participated in Epstein’s intercourse trafficking ring, ever met Virginia Roberts Giuffre, who sued Prince Andrew, alleging Epstein and Maxwell trafficked her to Prince Andrew when she was a minor.
Prince Andrew and Giuffre, who died earlier this yr, settled the lawsuit in 2022. He has denied the allegations in opposition to him.
The 2 had been famously photographed alongside Maxwell in a picture that turned probably the most indelible from the Epstein saga. Within the interview with Blanche, Maxwell mentioned she believes the {photograph} is faux.
She additionally disputed Giuffre’s account of getting a sexual encounter with Prince Andrew within the toilet of Maxwell’s home in London, saying the lavatory was too small for it to be bodily attainable.
“Her description of regardless of the two individuals had been doing within the tub, that wouldn’t work,” Maxwell mentioned. “The toilet itself is so small, you possibly can’t lie flat on the ground.”
Maxwell did affirm that Epstein knew one present Trump Cupboard member: Well being and Human Companies Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. She mentioned she accompanied Epstein and Kennedy on a “dinosaur bone searching” journey to the Dakotas a number of a long time in the past.
Maxwell mentioned she was not conscious whether or not or not Kennedy acquired a therapeutic massage from any of Epstein’s masseuses on the journey, however she by no means witnessed something untoward. “I by no means noticed something inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy,” she mentioned.
A spokesperson for the Division of Well being and Human Companies didn’t instantly reply to a request for remark.
Maxwell additionally mentioned she disbelieves official accounts that Epstein died by suicide whereas in jail. However she rejected the suggestion that he was killed as a part of a conspiracy to silence him. Fairly, she mentioned, she believed he might have been focused by an inmate for “inside” causes.
“In jail, the place I’m, they are going to kill you or they are going to pay — someone will pay a prisoner to kill you for $25 value of commissary,” Maxwell mentioned. “That’s concerning the going charge for a success with a lock at the moment.”
Justice Division officers have mentioned — and an inspector basic’s report concluded — that Epstein killed himself.